That Lovin' Feeling of Cynthia Weil
With Barry Mann, the Late Songwriter Put Her Heart Into Words
When word came of the death of lyricist Cynthia Weil June 1 at age 82 last week, I was in Tulsa, Okla., at the World of Bob Dylan Conference. I couldn't process the news: I was in a hermetically sealed hermeneutic Bob bubble.
The importance of the songs written by Weil and her co-writer and longtime husband Barry Mann are often underestimated. They were one of a matched set of songwriting teams, almost all young Jews from Brooklyn, that flourished in the hothouse of competitive composing sometimes known conceptually as "the Brill Building." It was a high-rise in midtown that housed music and song publishing companies; many of the writers worked in other buildings in the area, but the idea of the "Brill Building" is as catchy as any song these teams wrote. Which is essentially the early history of 1960s rock & soul, aside from Motown and Stax, as created by Mann and Weil along with Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, Carole King and Gerry Goffin, Neil Sedaka and Howard Greenfield, Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich, Doc Pomus and Mort Shuman, Bert Berns and Jerry Ragavoy. "These teams are a mind-blowing list, and certainly Mann and Weil were one of the big teams," said songwriter Billy Steinberg.
To discuss the Mann-Weil team and their legacy, I had a Zoom conversation with Steinberg from his home in Los Angeles. Billy and I have known each other from the 1968-1969 class of Bard College. I'd walk into his dorm room and listen to him playing guitar, or listening to music I hadn't heard: My first recollection is hearing George Harrison's soundtrack to Wonderwall on Billy's hi-fi: Groovy enough, though not the Beatles.
We kept up with each other's doings over the years. He was in a number of bands, including one called Billy Thermal. A Billy Thermal song by Steinberg, "How Do I Make You," was recorded by Linda Ronstadt for her Mad Love album and hit the Billboard top ten in early 1980. Throughout the 1980s, even in a period when so many artists were writing their own songs, Steinberg and writing partner Tom Kelly had the kind of success that matched Mann and Weil, or their friendly rivals Carole King and Gerry Goffin 20 years earlier. Their many hits include "True Colors" by Cyndi Lauper; "I Drove All Night," recorded by Lauper, Roy Orbison (who was the model for it), and Celine Dion. The Bangles' "Eternal Flame" (written with Susanna Hoffs); hits by Heart, the Divinyls, Pat Benatar. "So Emotional" by Whitney Houston, and, not least "Like a Virgin," by Madonna.
"My biggest song was 'True Colors', and if somebody other than Cyndi Lauper had recorded it, it could have been lost in the shuffle, could have been very mundane," Steinberg said. "As a songwriter, you're really lucky when the right singer comes along and sings your song." The core song of Madonna Inc., "Like a Virgin," was the opposite. "When we first wrote that, the A&R people laughed at us," Billy said. "Nobody's ever gonna sing that song. We were fortunate when Madonna sang it, but she was probably the only person who would sing it!"
What follows are excerpts from our conversation about the songs and impact of Barry Mann and the late Cynthia Weil.
WR: I THINK WHAT DISTINGUISHED MANN AND WEIL FROM THE BEGINNING WAS THE CRYSTALS' "UPTOWN," WHICH HAD A CONSCIOUSNESS, A CONSCIENCE BEHIND IT.
BS: I think others had others had a similar consciousness. "On Broadway," was a kind of pick yourself up and make it song, and "We Gotta Get Out of This Place," which many people thought was about Vietnam. Although maybe they just meant "the ghetto."
WR: I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF IT ABOUT BEING THE GHETTO, THE ANIMALS BEING FROM A POOR PART OF ENGLAND, NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE. A SLUM?
BS: Like 'On Broadway." Also, worth noting is that when we think about the sixties, we think of when The Beatles came out. But there was a lot of pre-Beatles 60s music that, let's just say, the cool factor was the British invasion groups, like the Beatles, the Kinks and the Rolling Stones. But American groups were trying to compete, early on. There were two big Mann-Weil songs that were hits for Paul Revere & the Raiders: "Kicks" and "Hungry."
Both were very interesting songs. I was 15, I might have thought "Kicks" was uncool, we thought light a joint and that was cool, and they were talking against it. But if you look at that song now, it's topical, and it does address some important topics.
WR: THE LIMITS OF HEDONISM, THE CONSTANT NEED FOR MORE SELF-GRATIFICATION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
BS: Also, the dangers of addiction and self-destruction. But if people say, what's the most important song they ever wrote, no one would dispute it's "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling." For my taste, the most important Mann-Weil songs were 'You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling," "On Broadway," and "We Gotta Get Out of This Place." Those are the three I would say "I wish I wrote those songs. "
FROM A SONGWRITER'S POINT OF VIEW, WHY IS 'YOU'VE LOST THAT LOVIN' FEELING' SUCH A POWERFUL SONG, HAVE SUCH UNIVERSALITY?
BS: (Billy recites recites the lyrics). I'm just reciting in my head the lyrics of the first verse, and I got the chills. "You never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips/and there's no tenderness like before in your fingertips/you're trying hard not to show it. But baby, baby I know it. You've lost that lovin feeling." I mean that's gut-wrenching, then you've got that wonderful melody, you've got the Righteous Brothers, the whole thing. Phil Spector [production]. Together, it's like perfection.
MANN AND WEIL ALSO WROTE 'JUST A LITTLE LOVIN'" FOR DUSTY SPRINGFIELD'S GREAT DUSTY IN MEMPHIS ALBUM.
[We talk about two songs they wrote for B.J. Thomas: "Rock and Roll Lullaby" (1972), which we agree does not stand up well.] "But they also wrote "Just Can't Help Believing," which I find memorable. I like it," Billy says. He continues:
"We're not mentioning the important songs they did for Gene Pitney: "I'm Gonna Be Strong" (top 10, 1964) and "Looking Through the Eyes of Love." That song was covered by Cyndi Lauper. To me it was clearly an homage to Roy Orbison. Gene Pitney was a great singer, sort of in the style of Roy Orbison. And Roy Orbison is hard to surpass, the best in that drama style, but Gene Pitney was a close second . . . Later in their career, writing in a more mainstream/adult contemporary style, they did that beautiful ballad, "Don't Know Much," which was Linda Ronstadt with Aaron Neville. The coup was getting Aaron Neville on it, because he has such an insanely beautiful voice, it made the song feel important."
WR: BARRY AND CYNTHIA ALSO WROTE "BLAME IT ON THE BOSSA NOVA," FOR EYDIE GORME, AND "HERE YOU COME AGAIN," WHEN THE LATE CHARLES KOPPELMAN MADE A POP CROSSOVER HIT RECORD FOR DOLLY PARTON IN 1977.
BS: That Eydie Gorme song, that's kind of a goofy song I wouldn't include that as one of their finer moments.
WR: I THINK IT WAS IN TOUCH WITH ITS TIME; I THINK THE BOSSA NOVA WAS BIG AMONG ADULT SWINGERS WHEN WE WERE TEENS. (R.I.P. Astrud Gilberto.)
You mentioned earlier 'Uptown' by the Crystals. More appealing to me was the Mann-Weil song, "Walkin' in the Rain." [1964, Ronettes; 1970 Jay & the Americans]. I love 'Walkin' in the Rain,' I think that's a beautiful song.
WHAT IS THE QUALITY THAT MADE CYNTHIA WEIL SUCH A CONSISTENT LYRICIST?
The emotional depth. I was reciting the first verse [of 'Lovin' Feeling'] and I involunarily got the chills, and something like that is indisputable, and at her best, she was consistently able to do that as well as anybody.
(I TELL BILLY ABOUT AN INTERVIEW I DID WITH FRANKIE VALLI EARLY IN THE 2010s, IN WHICH HE TOLD ME THE MOST PERFECT SONG HE KNEW WAS "WILL YOU STILL LOVE ME TOMORROW," SUNG BY THE SHIRELLES, WRITTEN BY CAROLE KING AND GERRY GOFFIN. VALLI ALSO RECITED THE WORDS OF THE FIRST VERSE, WHICH GAVE HIM CHILLS).
BS: Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil and Goffin and King were close friends, and the two songs, 'Will You Love Me Tomorrow' and 'You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling,' they're like a pair, together, perfect songs that both very effectively addressed core issues in young love.
WR: IT'S GREAT THAT THIS MUSIC, ONCE THOUGHT TO BE TRANSIENT, EPHEMERAL, STILL STANDS 50, 60 YEARS LATER.
BS: It means something to us. I'd be curious to see if someone who is 16, or 18, if these songs still mean anything to these people.