THE JOEY RAMONE INTERVIEW

"We spawned a whole new evolution of music" 1987.

In 2018, the esteemed sociologist and head-banger Dr. Donna Gaines, published a slim volume called Why the Ramones Matter (University of Texas Press). I assigned her preface to all my arts criticism classes at St. John's University, so cogent was its analysis of why she's identified with the Ramones both as a scholar and visceral fan of heavy music. She and I were Ramones fans from the beginning, 50 years ago. If you say the phrase "punk rock" to anyone, especially in New York, you should visualize one thing: the Ramones. They changed rock & roll, they changed fashion, they changed the way outsiders could find an umbrella under which they could bond.

Donna implied in her preface that it was anticlimactic to interview the band for the Village Voice in 1996: When you tried to talk to all four, the backbiting and personality conflicts were never far from the surface. Her point was you already knew what you needed to know every time you heard them perform, Dee Dee Ramone counting off the frantic beat "1-2-3-4," hard-fast-loud, and perfect.

Their tenth album in 10 years, Halfway to Sanity, was about to be released in September 1987 by Sire/Warner Bros. Records, which they'd been with since the debut album Ramones was released in 1976. It was produced by Daniel Rey and the band; it was the final album with drummer Richie Ramone; and it peaked at No. 172 on the Billboard album chart.

They'd never had a hit record. The radio and MTV dodged them. Their 1995 farewell album Adios Amigos (peak: No. 148 according to Billboard's list, as published in Joel Whitburn's Top Pop Albums 1955-2001) was sort of typical. The highest charting Ramones albums were End of the Century (1980), produced by Phil Spector under typically tense circumstances for any Spector project, and Rocket to Russia (1977), the most universally acclaimed rock album since its two predecessors, Ramones and Leave Home. None of those albums crashed even the top 40 album chart, but were almost close.

I was invited to spend an afternoon with Joey before the release of Halfway to Sanity in his apartment. He had a few studios in an East Village high-rise, as I recall: One to sleep, one for exercise and for his records and stuff. This is the full transcript for a feature story; it has never been published in this format. I hope you enjoy it.

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WR: HOW DO THE RAMONES GET AROUND ON THE ROAD THESE DAYS?

Joey Ramone: We travel in a van. Everybody has their own row, that's our tour bus. We economize. We work hard for our money--we don't wanna throw it away, like everybody else.

THERE ARE SOME SARCASTIC WORDS FROM RICHIE IN ROLLING STONE.

He blew it, alright? He blew it, and that's that. He pulled a number on us, his head swelled, he got greedy, his wife told him how wonderful he was all the time. It started with financial matters, and that was resolved. Richie got what he wanted, and I thought maybe things could have worked out. For me it's a little fucked up, because at one time me and Richie were really good friends. I mean, Richie quit. He pulled a number, quitting without notice . . . the week  of The Ritz shows. Heavy shows, with the album coming out. It was sort of a pre-planned escapade on his part . . .  He sort of comes over to me whimpering, 'I can't work you guys, I quit."

The Ramones are the three of us [Joey vocals, Dee Dee bass, Johnny guitar], nobody cares if Richie's in or out, or whoever else it might be. Because it takes a lot to be in this band . . . We've worked hard to be what we are, and maintain what we are. And the kids are coming to see us, sure, we come out as a power team. We don't just pick up a drummer and go out. We work hard to make sure the band is the best, and that's the way we do it.

Joey Ramone in an appearance on the Late Night with David Letterman Show, Jan. 9, 1991. All rights reserved by copyright holder

HOW DID [DRUMMER] CLEM BURKE COME ABOARD?

Clem did us a favor, in a time of need. I remember when we sang at CBGB, and I used to watch Blondie, most of my focus was on Clem. The focus that wasn't on Debbie [Harry] (laughs). He was a regular Keith Moon as far as I was concerned. I'd rather just leave it at that. Now Mark [drummer Marky Ramone] is back. I tell ya, something about drummers, their insides rot. Like if you don't have the Duracell, you know?

THE TITLE HALFWAY TO SANITY DOESN'T SEEM ENTIRELY IN JEST. SONGS LIKE “I WANT TO LIVE” ACTUALLY HAVE EXTRA CHORDS AND GUITAR SOLOS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

This album has a lot going on. To me, this is our best album, it's a real uniform album, it's a real Ramones album, produced by the band, they left us alone. We were all getting along great. I think it shows in the strength of the execution of the album, and the material.

DANIEL REY IS LISTED AS A PRODUCER. WHO IS HE?

He used to be in Shrapnel at one point. Now he's in Dick Manitoba's Wild Kingdom, and he used to work with Richie Stotts [guitarist/co-founder of the Plasmatics] too. He's a friend of ours, he knows what exciting music's all about, he was involved in the making of this album. But from start to finish it was the band. It was very exciting, the artist knows what he wants. I loved the last album, Animal Boy, and Jean Beauvoir [producer] is a very talented guy and all, but this album is us. We knew exactly what we wanted to do, and did it. I think it shows. It's very raw and hard rock, and very Ramones. It captures a lot of the earliness, the freshness.

WHENEVER A NEW ALBUM COMES OUT, ALL THE RAMONES SUPPORTERS, AND PEOPLE IN THE PRESS SAY, 'THIS IS IS THE BEST, THE ONE THAT'S GONNA BE THE ONE THAT BREAKS THEM.' DO YOU STILL HAVE THOSE EXPECTATIONS?

Joey: (big sigh). No more. I mean, I don't want to say anything about our record company, because the record's coming out in a couple of days. All I know is that we worked our asses off, and always have put out, in record company lingo, the best product, an album that makes us happy and our fans happy as well. So we don't go out and try to do something so we're gonna get airtime, or please whoever the top guy is at Warner Brothers these days. We don't work for them we do it for our own pleasure, this is what excites us. And that's why we still reign supreme, and at the top of the hill, we are still the best after 13 years. We're bigger than ever, doing the best attendance we've ever done, there's a whole new generation of kids that are into the band, and we're their primary favorites. A lot of them were 9 or 10 when they first heard of us, from older brothers and sister or parents, even. I feel like we're the ultimate rock and roll band left alive.

I guess we're more of a live band than a studio band, though both are equally important. We still have our initial fans, the ones who didn't get old. We have heavy metal kids now, and the hardcore/thrash kids, college kids. Anybody from any walk of life that appreciates exciting music.

COULD YOU HAVE IMAGINED WHEN YOU WERE PLAYING CBGB 12, 13 YEARS AGO THAT THE RAMONES WOULD STILL BE HAPPENING?

Joey: You don't see it like that. You take it a step at a time. The one thing that really excites me is a band like Metallica coming up now. When we came out and punk started, and the Sex Pistols and Clash came out after us when we went to England in 1976--in 1976, we revolutionized rock & roll, we brought a whole new sound in culture and style and ideology and political sense to the music. It changed the world. Everybody was influenced by us, some of the biggest names--the Rolling Stones and people like that, everything changed. Ten years later it's our tenth studio album. A band like Metallica, speed metal, thrash metal, is very big, it's a direct evolution of what we started with out first album. It's the next generation, you know what I mean?

They [Metallica] came to see us in Kentucky last year, and Lars told us he had seen us in Copenhagen in 1980, and moved to Los Angeles and used the Ramones as the basis for Metallica, with a blend of metal.

I always felt we stood alone. We kind of spawned a whole new evolution of music, but we were always The Ramones, always played rock & roll music. We were a reaction to all the pretentiousness, mediocrity, and superficialness that was going on at the tine. We were there to kind of clear the air, in a sense, put rock back in its proper perspective. Things had gotten totally out of hand. I think alot of it had to do with LSD or something (laughs), I don't know, people lost sight of rock and roll as a pure form. I feel like we gave the life it had lost, the drive and excitement that had disappeared.

EVEN HEAVY METAL KIDS LIKE YOU NOW.

Alot of bands are so predictable, you know what I mean? There's the light show, the fire and smoke, they plod along. The Ramones are a total spontaneity, natural spontaneity, that's it. Heaviness, excitement. It's all from within. It's not pretentious.

WAS THERE EVER A TIME WHEN YOU DID A PROJECT--MAYBE THE ALBUM WITH PHIL SPECTOR, END OF THE CENTURY (FIFTH STUDIO ALBUM, 1980), WHEN YOU SAID, THIS IS IT, OUR LIVES ARE GOING TO CHANGE NOW?

Joey: Well, originally we thought that being unique and innovative that things would have clicked a lot earlier on. We didn't realize that if you're unique and innovative in America, you're sidelined. In America, all they want is things that sound exactly the same, that are safe and inoffensive and don't rock or shake things up. We thought it would maybe be us and the Sex Pistols, sorta like the Beatles and the Stones. In Europe it was more that way, we're a lot bigger over there. This past April we went to South America for the first time, did incredible. We were selling out sports arenas there . . . but it's always been an uphill battle here. It's better now than it ever was. There's definitely an acceptance. It's still hard radio-wise, though that's a lot better too. Something about not compromising, not kissing ass, maintaining your integrity, that America doesn't like. Being unique and innovative, doing something to open people's minds, to turn them on to a new way of thinking, or just bring some new ideas, America says, 'no, this is no good.' I hate to say it, because I love America. (laughs) It's my home, the greatest place in the world.

WORKING WITH PHIL SPECTOR DIDN'T SOUR YOU ON THE SPECTOR SOUND?

I'm a big fan of Phil Spector, but yeah, working with Phil Spector was a living hell. But on the other hand, enlightening and exciting too. He's definitely one of my influences, as a songwriter, what makes up the Ramones is a combination of music and living, and experiencing and adventuring and everything, absorbing it. So I've been influenced by a million things, since I first got into music, was was 1962 or so. Everything's absorbed in your head, and your output is what makes you unique.

Alot of bands around 1976 were limited. You could hear Johnny Thunders influence, but the Ramones there were so many things you couldn't pinpoint in particular. We basically share alot of the same tastes. It was great, it turned us onto what was great. Nowadays, it's like a wasteland, a joke.

WHAT WAS THE FIRST RECORD YOU EVER BOUGHT?

Maybe Del Shannon's "Runaway," a lot of girl groups, [the Murmaids' 1964] "Popsicles and Icicles."

TELL ME ABOUT THE WRITING OF SOME OF THE NEW SONGS:

"It's Gonna Be the Death of Me": [Appears on the album as "Death of Me"]. I remember when I wrote it, the night before was a band night. It was a good night, but I was bad. It was sort of a night of overindulgence. I went to see the Georgia Satellites at the Ritz, and the next day I guess my insides were telling me something, like, slow down, or you'll kill yourself. That's basically what it was about.

"Bye Bye Baby" is about my old girlfriend.

'I LOST MY MIND,' THAT'S DEE DEE SINGING, RIGHT?

Yeah. That song makes me happy because I know that feeling. To me that is a blissful kind of song. It's like when we're in the van, going to the show, everyone has their own row. You're sort of laying in your own row, I hear that song and I almost feel like you can wrap your arms around each other like you're in a straitjacket and just sort of lay there with a smile on your face. After all we've been through, it's very relatable.

When you're in the van, you're in your own little capsule. Playing a different city every night. You played, it was great. Then you partied, and it was great. You can get out, just get away. Like that Who song, "Going Mobile."

ARE YOU DOING A SOLO ALBUM?

Dee Dee does. I've got plans for one, one in the can, Dee Dee has an actual one coming out . The first single is this week, a rap single, "Funky Man."

I had done [New York disc jockey] Vin Scelsa's Easter extravaganza. One was a new (acoustic) song, a train song, "Waiting for the Railroad to Go Home." The other was an acoustic version of "Death of Me." I did it because Scelsa liked the song. Just something different. I've always liked acoustic songs, it's kinda cool, a different form of expression. I did it with my brother Mickey Leigh, who has that band, the Rattlers.

CAN YOU SEE THE RAMONES DOING THIS TEN YEARS FROM NOW?

I don't think so. We're not gonna wind up like them. It's kinda exciting that Dee Dee's doing his own project, it's exciting to do your own thing as well as the Ramones. When it's time to put the Ramones to bed and call it a day, you want people to remember you as the greatest. I want people to remember the Ramones as the greatest rock and roll band there ever was, the way you remember Jimi Hendrix as the greatest guitarist, or Marc Bolan or John Lennon. Without having to hit the pit there, in some ways I hate to see it, but maybe it's better they went than became has-beens like some people. They just don't know when it's time to stop, so you don't become a parody of yourself.

It's funny to see the Grateful Dead on MTV, but I think it's great. It's like they're the ultimate cult band, like a larger version of us in some ways.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU LIKE CURRENTLY?

My favorite bands of the moment are AC/DC--they're a great band, simple, exciting, great songs. I liked them better with Bon Scott, but I think they've maintained. Motörhead, Manitoba's Wild Kingdom. As far as new bands, they're the best.

I'm excited Los Lobos are doing so well. The way they are in the film ("La Bamba"), and what's happening in reality is almost like a parallel.

THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF PUNK PEOPLE TALK ABOUT NOW; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE AN ELDER STATESMAN?

It's flattering. I feel like we're just the same. I think our attitude is, these bands come out, they've been around for awhile, they come off with these attitudes: we're this, we're that...we're just ourselves. We try to go out and be the best, most exciting, maintain that. Maintain your credibility, integrity, initial intentions, high ideals, and be better than you've ever been.

We're playing for them, they know it, and they're for us. They know they're gonna see the best show they can, and basically that's all there is to it. Everyone else has sort of come and gone. The Clash, the way they did so well was conforming, playing the white disco. We don't go triple platinum, we don't sell millions of albums, but we maintain our self-respect. To me, the most important thing is to walk down the street and the kids, artists, musicians, people in the know saying ‘you guys are the best.’

DID ANY ALBUM SELL BETTER THAN OTHERS?

End of the Century did well. Are we frustrated we didn't have that kind of success, when people took our style and had it?

SUCH AS?

Like Billy Idol, the Clash, people like that. The kind of band we are, yeah, it's kind of frustrating. But we're not a one-hit wonder kind of group. We have credibility, we have substance and guts, we are willing to take the dare, they are not. Billy Idol is a commercial item, it's a package. The Ramones are reality, authentic and genuine, we're not a package and we can't be packaged. Maybe that's the gripe of the label and maybe that's the gripe of of the people upstairs who own the big radio corporations.

MTV HASN'T BEEN GREAT TO THE RAMONES EITHER.

Most of the videos have gotten banned because they offend somebody at MTV. "Psychotherapy" was banned; "Something to Believe In" was banned, it had a bit of black humor. . . I know what word I was looking for, 'disillusioned.' When people come to see us, they are not disillusioned, and I think most people are disillusioned with most groups they see in arenas. The packaging, what are they getting out of them? I think it would be more exciting if the band left the stage and I watched the light shows and the explosions. These bands are secondary to their productions. The Ramones are the show, the energy. We put out, and they reciprocate. It's like a religious experience, it's like going to church.

Today we were offered to do a jingle for some wine cooler.